Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  is social sustainability scientific?

    Posted 08-25-2009 09:05

    Hello! Friends,

    I hope someone could explain about social sustainability.

     

    In my understanding, environmental sustainability makes sense because the natural environment is what all we need. But social environment is man-made, the culture and tradition you belong to might be a burden to me. So, social sustainability is equal to social desirability and may not be valid to others.

     

    I'd like to hear your opinions and explanations about it.

     

    Thank you,

     

    Sheng Zhao

     

     



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  • 2.  is social sustainability scientific?

    Posted 08-25-2009 10:11
    Sheng,

    I would agree with you that the social element of sustainability is the least clear of the three elements of the "triple bottom line." For example, is the social component of sustainability the same as "social responsibility?" I don't think so. I think social responsibility is a broader concept of organizational (or individual) responsibilities to society. Based on Archie Carroll's framework, this would include economic responsibilities, legal and ethical responsibilities, as well as environmental responsibilities, and the social component of sustainability. But there are many non-economic and non-environmental social responsibilities that I don't view as part of the social component of sustainability.

    I think that the social component of sustainability has to do primarily with the notion of equity, namely leaving the vulnerable no worse off, and hopefully better off, than they were before an action occurred. From an organizational (esp. but not exclusively business) standpoint, this focuses attention on the poorer and less powerful members of society, especially the local community, and also of one's workforce. While one might argue that customers should be included here, I think that responsibilities to customers falls under broader CSR rather than social sustainability. Customers almost always can choose either to purchase from another firm, or not to purchase at all. Not so with members of a local community and with employees.

    Thus I think addressing the welfare of the poor and the powerless who are affected by a firm's actions and presence in the workplace, a community or region are the focal point of social sustainability.

    Gordon Rands
    Western Illinois University

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "sh zh" <mhot77@hotmail.com>
    To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:05:25 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
    Subject: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?



    Hello! Friends,

    I hope someone could explain about social sustainability.



    In my understanding, environmental sustainability makes sense because the natural environment is what all we need. But social environment is man-made, the culture and tradition you belong to might be a burden to me. So, social sustainability is equal to social desirability and may not be valid to others.



    I’d like to hear your opinions and explanations about it.



    Thank you,



    Sheng Zhao





    Internet Explorer 8 - accelerate your Hotmail. Download Internet Explorer 8 _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

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  • 3.  is social sustainability scientific?

    Posted 08-25-2009 12:08
    Sheng,

    You may find this recent book interesting; Understanding the social
    dimension of sustainability (2008, Routledge). It offers a
    multi-disciplinary lens for examining social sustainability.

    Cheers,
    Scott



    GP-Rands@wiu.edu wrote:
    > Sheng,
    >
    > I would agree with you that the social element of sustainability is the least clear of the three elements of the "triple bottom line." For example, is the social component of sustainability the same as "social responsibility?" I don't think so. I think social responsibility is a broader concept of organizational (or individual) responsibilities to society. Based on Archie Carroll's framework, this would include economic responsibilities, legal and ethical responsibilities, as well as environmental responsibilities, and the social component of sustainability. But there are many non-economic and non-environmental social responsibilities that I don't view as part of the social component of sustainability.
    >
    > I think that the social component of sustainability has to do primarily with the notion of equity, namely leaving the vulnerable no worse off, and hopefully better off, than they were before an action occurred. From an organizational (esp. but not exclusively business) standpoint, this focuses attention on the poorer and less powerful members of society, especially the local community, and also of one's workforce. While one might argue that customers should be included here, I think that responsibilities to customers falls under broader CSR rather than social sustainability. Customers almost always can choose either to purchase from another firm, or not to purchase at all. Not so with members of a local community and with employees.
    >
    > Thus I think addressing the welfare of the poor and the powerless who are affected by a firm's actions and presence in the workplace, a community or region are the focal point of social sustainability.
    >
    > Gordon Rands
    > Western Illinois University
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "sh zh" <mhot77@hotmail.com>
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:05:25 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
    > Subject: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?
    >
    >
    >
    > Hello! Friends,
    >
    > I hope someone could explain about social sustainability.
    >
    >
    >
    > In my understanding, environmental sustainability makes sense because the natural environment is what all we need. But social environment is man-made, the culture and tradition you belong to might be a burden to me. So, social sustainability is equal to social desirability and may not be valid to others.
    >
    >
    >
    > I’d like to hear your opinions and explanations about it.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you,
    >
    >
    >
    > Sheng Zhao
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Internet Explorer 8 - accelerate your Hotmail. Download Internet Explorer 8 _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1 _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    > options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    >

    _______________________________________________________________________

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  • 4.  is social sustainability scientific?

    Posted 08-29-2009 16:39
    Dear Sheng Zhao,

    I appreciate your perceptiveness in noting that the phrase "social sustainability", and its use, are a function of cultural belief systems, not nature (or physical environment). And you are correct that one society's system of cultural beliefs, and policies based on those beliefs, may indeed burden another society (or several societies) with harmful practices. A frequently cited example of this kind of harmfulness is the economic and environmental divide displayed between the economically developed North and the lesser developed South, or specifically the many examples of environmentally disastrous resource exploitation in various underdeveloped nations by corporate interests based in technologically advanced nations where "sustainability" is often touted as company policy. You will discover, I fear, that "sustainability" advocates---whether speaking of economic, environmental, or social sustainability---have no clear way to cope with this dilemma, because they resist taking a position of cultural relativism and are generally reluctant to face up to the limitations placed on the very notion of "sustainability" by the physical laws of nature.

    Best wishes,

    Bill

    William C. Frederick
    Professor Emeritus
    Katz Graduate School of Business
    University of Pittsburgh
    US Postal address:
    1246 Murray Hill Avenue
    Pittsburgh, PA 15217, USA
    e-mail: billfred@katz.pitt.edu
    Website: www.williamcfrederick.com


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Social Issues in Management Listserv [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of sh zh
    Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:05 AM
    To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?

    Hello! Friends,

    I hope someone could explain about social sustainability.



    In my understanding, environmental sustainability makes sense because the natural environment is what all we need. But social environment is man-made, the culture and tradition you belong to might be a burden to me. So, social sustainability is equal to social desirability and may not be valid to others.



    I'd like to hear your opinions and explanations about it.



    Thank you,



    Sheng Zhao






    ________________________________

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    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

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    _______________________________________________________________________

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  • 5.  is social sustainability scientific?

    Posted 08-31-2009 10:12
    Thanks, Susan,

    I agree with you that the issue raised by Sheng Zhao is not only interesting but is one that deserves greater attention. In speaking of the "limitations" on "sustainability," I had in mind the effects and operations of thermodynamics laws and their tendency to generate entropy in ecosystems and in all organic systems. Entropy is a universal and unavoidable tendency of such systems to move from a high-energy state to a lower-energy condition and, without some countermanding process, to a zero-energy situation. There is a sense in which "sustainability" in any absolute meaning is either not achievable or is possible only in circumstances that "sustain" one part of an ecosystem at the expense of other parts (and the organisms living there). Entropic decline in this sense is universally present and challenges "sustainability" advocates with a central dilemma. As Sheng Zhao pointed out, some social systems exhibit greater "sustainability" than others, and they do so by pushing their entropy onto other, generally weaker or unaware social systems. No one has yet demonstrated how to avoid this problem or, more importantly, how it would be possible to imagine a world in which entropic decline is not present. The main approach employed by societies --- ours being an exemplar --- is to search for new sources of energy to replace more entropy-generating ones, and this search can go on successfully for long periods, thereby creating an impression that human society can be "sustained" indefinitely. And perhaps it can, thanks to technological ingenuity. But these new energy sources are also subject to entropic decline over time. The problem I have with "sustainability" advocates is a general tendency to imply, if not to assert outright, that corporations, societies, and planetary ecosystems can somehow be "sustained" if only we come to our senses and act rationally to conserve energy. We live _within_ interconnected ecosystems and societies that mutually affect one another in their respective anti-entropic energy efforts, so that Sheng Zhao is correct to question the integrity of one society's efforts to "sustain" itself at the entropic expense of other societies. Quite by chance, I happened this evening to see an episode of "60 Minutes" in which a US E-waste recycling corporation in Denver was shown to have some of its accumulated hazardous waste (computer monitors, cell phones, etc.) turn up in a Hong Kong waste dump where its disposal threatens the health and lives of waste-dump employees and the surrounding local community (a remote poverty area). This is a good example of US corporate entropy being exported to another society. And that greenhouse-gas cloud enveloping the planet is nothing but the entropic exhalations of corporations and their customers; it is no respecter of national/ethnic boundaries. "Sustaining" ecosystem life is obviously a planetary project.

    I should also have said in my original posting that other physical and biological laws of nature provide some positve opportunities for thinking about and taking action about such matters. Here I am referring to genetically embedded neural modules and normative behavioral tendencies revealed by evolutionary psychology and neuroscience. Neither of these approaches depends on socially ethnocentric concepts or beliefs such as "sustainability." Until "sustainability" advocates begin to discuss such issues in a broader planetary sphere and place the matter within what is increasingly known about the natural components involved, I doubt the validity of their socially-bound perspectives.

    Now that you have heard my views, I would be pleased to hear your own thoughts about it all. I've not found in others any simple answers, nor do I have any to offer.

    Best wishes,

    Bill


    William C. Frederick
    Professor Emeritus
    Katz Graduate School of Business
    University of Pittsburgh
    US Postal address:
    1246 Murray Hill Avenue
    Pittsburgh, PA 15217, USA
    e-mail: billfred@katz.pitt.edu
    Website: www.williamcfrederick.com


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Susan L. Kirby [mailto:prof_kirby@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:19 PM
    To: Frederick, William Crittenden
    Subject: Re: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?

    This is a very interesting thread. I'd like to hear more about your ideas regarding the "reluctancy to face up to the limitations placed on the very notion of "sustainability" by the physical laws of nature..."

    Thanks.

    Susan L. Kirby, Ph.D.
    McCoy College of Business Administration - Rm 524 Texas State University San Marcos, TX 78666-4616
    Phone: 512-245-3309/Fax: 512-245-2850
    http://www.susankirby.com


    --- On Sat, 8/29/09, Frederick, William Crittenden <BILLFRED@katz.pitt.edu> wrote:

    > From: Frederick, William Crittenden <BILLFRED@katz.pitt.edu>
    > Subject: Re: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 3:38 PM Dear Sheng Zhao,
    >
    > I appreciate your perceptiveness in noting that the phrase "social
    > sustainability", and its use, are a function of cultural belief
    > systems, not nature (or physical environment).  And you are correct
    > that one society's system of cultural beliefs, and policies based on
    > those beliefs, may indeed burden another society (or several
    > societies) with harmful practices.  A frequently cited example of this
    > kind of harmfulness is the economic and environmental divide displayed
    > between the economically developed North and the lesser developed
    > South, or specifically the many examples of environmentally disastrous
    > resource exploitation in various underdeveloped nations by corporate
    > interests based in technologically advanced nations where
    > "sustainability" is often touted as company policy.  You will
    > discover, I fear, that "sustainability" advocates---whether speaking
    > of economic, environmental, or social sustainability---have no clear
    > way to cope with this dilemma, because they resist taking a position
    > of cultural relativism and are generally reluctant to face up to the
    > limitations placed on the very notion of "sustainability" by the
    > physical laws of nature.
    >
    > Best wishes,
    >
    > Bill
    >
    > William C. Frederick
    > Professor Emeritus
    > Katz Graduate School of Business
    > University of Pittsburgh
    > US Postal address:
    > 1246 Murray Hill Avenue
    > Pittsburgh, PA 15217, USA
    > e-mail:  billfred@katz.pitt.edu
    > Website:  www.williamcfrederick.com
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Social Issues in Management Listserv
    > [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of sh zh
    > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:05 AM
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?
    >
    > Hello! Friends,
    >
    > I hope someone could explain about social sustainability.
    >
    >
    >
    > In my understanding, environmental sustainability makes sense because
    > the natural environment is what all we need.
    > But social environment is man-made, the culture and tradition you
    > belong to might be a burden to me. So, social sustainability is equal
    > to social desirability and may not be valid to others.
    >
    >
    >
    > I'd like to hear your opinions and explanations about it.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you,
    >
    >
    >
    > Sheng Zhao
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________
    >
    > Internet Explorer 8 - accelerate your Hotmail. Download Internet
    > Explorer 8 <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/>
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to
    > SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    >
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    > options, you can do so online at:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    >
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to
    > SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    > options, you can do so online at:
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    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >




    _______________________________________________________________________

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    _______________________________________________________________________

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  • 6.  is social sustainability scientific?

    Posted 08-31-2009 10:42
    SIM Friends,

    While the construct is being validated, it seems that becoming more familiar
    with social capital as a tool to facilitate action in other better defined
    areas of sustainability would be of utility.

    A great text is: Halpern, D. (2005) Social Capital. Polity

    Best,

    Daniel E. Martin, Ph.D. | Assistant Professor, Department of Management
    California State University, East Bay | College of Business and Economics
    email: daniel.martin@csueastbay.edu | phone: 510-885-2060

    Alinea Group SF | Vice President
    email: dmartin@alineagroup.com | phone: 800-590-8095 | Fax: 800-203-7055

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Social Issues in Management Listserv [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Frederick, William Crittenden
    Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:12 AM
    To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?

    Thanks, Susan,

    I agree with you that the issue raised by Sheng Zhao is not only interesting
    but is one that deserves greater attention. In speaking of the
    "limitations" on "sustainability," I had in mind the effects and operations
    of thermodynamics laws and their tendency to generate entropy in ecosystems
    and in all organic systems. Entropy is a universal and unavoidable tendency
    of such systems to move from a high-energy state to a lower-energy condition
    and, without some countermanding process, to a zero-energy situation. There
    is a sense in which "sustainability" in any absolute meaning is either not
    achievable or is possible only in circumstances that "sustain" one part of
    an ecosystem at the expense of other parts (and the organisms living there).
    Entropic decline in this sense is universally present and challenges
    "sustainability" advocates with a central dilemma. As Sheng Zhao pointed
    out, some social systems exhibit greater "sustainability" than others, and
    they do so by pushing their entropy onto other, generally weaker or unaware
    social systems. No one has yet demonstrated how to avoid this problem or,
    more importantly, how it would be possible to imagine a world in which
    entropic decline is not present. The main approach employed by societies
    --- ours being an exemplar --- is to search for new sources of energy to
    replace more entropy-generating ones, and this search can go on successfully
    for long periods, thereby creating an impression that human society can be
    "sustained" indefinitely. And perhaps it can, thanks to technological
    ingenuity. But these new energy sources are also subject to entropic
    decline over time. The problem I have with "sustainability" advocates is a
    general tendency to imply, if not to assert outright, that corporations,
    societies, and planetary ecosystems can somehow be "sustained" if only we
    come to our senses and act rationally to conserve energy. We live _within_
    interconnected ecosystems and societies that mutually affect one another in
    their respective anti-entropic energy efforts, so that Sheng Zhao is correct
    to question the integrity of one society's efforts to "sustain" itself at
    the entropic expense of other societies. Quite by chance, I happened this
    evening to see an episode of "60 Minutes" in which a US E-waste recycling
    corporation in Denver was shown to have some of its accumulated hazardous
    waste (computer monitors, cell phones, etc.) turn up in a Hong Kong waste
    dump where its disposal threatens the health and lives of waste-dump
    employees and the surrounding local community (a remote poverty area). This
    is a good example of US corporate entropy being exported to another society.
    And that greenhouse-gas cloud enveloping the planet is nothing but the
    entropic exhalations of corporations and their customers; it is no respecter
    of national/ethnic boundaries. "Sustaining" ecosystem life is obviously a
    planetary project.

    I should also have said in my original posting that other physical and
    biological laws of nature provide some positve opportunities for thinking
    about and taking action about such matters. Here I am referring to
    genetically embedded neural modules and normative behavioral tendencies
    revealed by evolutionary psychology and neuroscience. Neither of these
    approaches depends on socially ethnocentric concepts or beliefs such as
    "sustainability." Until "sustainability" advocates begin to discuss such
    issues in a broader planetary sphere and place the matter within what is
    increasingly known about the natural components involved, I doubt the
    validity of their socially-bound perspectives.

    Now that you have heard my views, I would be pleased to hear your own
    thoughts about it all. I've not found in others any simple answers, nor do
    I have any to offer.

    Best wishes,

    Bill


    William C. Frederick
    Professor Emeritus
    Katz Graduate School of Business
    University of Pittsburgh
    US Postal address:
    1246 Murray Hill Avenue
    Pittsburgh, PA 15217, USA
    e-mail: billfred@katz.pitt.edu
    Website: www.williamcfrederick.com


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Susan L. Kirby [mailto:prof_kirby@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:19 PM
    To: Frederick, William Crittenden
    Subject: Re: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?

    This is a very interesting thread. I'd like to hear more about your ideas
    regarding the "reluctancy to face up to the limitations placed on the very
    notion of "sustainability" by the physical laws of nature..."

    Thanks.

    Susan L. Kirby, Ph.D.
    McCoy College of Business Administration - Rm 524 Texas State University San
    Marcos, TX 78666-4616
    Phone: 512-245-3309/Fax: 512-245-2850
    http://www.susankirby.com


    --- On Sat, 8/29/09, Frederick, William Crittenden <BILLFRED@katz.pitt.edu>
    wrote:

    > From: Frederick, William Crittenden <BILLFRED@katz.pitt.edu>
    > Subject: Re: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 3:38 PM Dear Sheng Zhao,
    >
    > I appreciate your perceptiveness in noting that the phrase "social
    > sustainability", and its use, are a function of cultural belief
    > systems, not nature (or physical environment).  And you are correct
    > that one society's system of cultural beliefs, and policies based on
    > those beliefs, may indeed burden another society (or several
    > societies) with harmful practices.  A frequently cited example of this
    > kind of harmfulness is the economic and environmental divide displayed
    > between the economically developed North and the lesser developed
    > South, or specifically the many examples of environmentally disastrous
    > resource exploitation in various underdeveloped nations by corporate
    > interests based in technologically advanced nations where
    > "sustainability" is often touted as company policy.  You will
    > discover, I fear, that "sustainability" advocates---whether speaking
    > of economic, environmental, or social sustainability---have no clear
    > way to cope with this dilemma, because they resist taking a position
    > of cultural relativism and are generally reluctant to face up to the
    > limitations placed on the very notion of "sustainability" by the
    > physical laws of nature.
    >
    > Best wishes,
    >
    > Bill
    >
    > William C. Frederick
    > Professor Emeritus
    > Katz Graduate School of Business
    > University of Pittsburgh
    > US Postal address:
    > 1246 Murray Hill Avenue
    > Pittsburgh, PA 15217, USA
    > e-mail:  billfred@katz.pitt.edu
    > Website:  www.williamcfrederick.com
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Social Issues in Management Listserv
    > [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of sh zh
    > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:05 AM
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?
    >
    > Hello! Friends,
    >
    > I hope someone could explain about social sustainability.
    >
    >
    >
    > In my understanding, environmental sustainability makes sense because
    > the natural environment is what all we need.
    > But social environment is man-made, the culture and tradition you
    > belong to might be a burden to me. So, social sustainability is equal
    > to social desirability and may not be valid to others.
    >
    >
    >
    > I'd like to hear your opinions and explanations about it.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you,
    >
    >
    >
    > Sheng Zhao
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________
    >
    > Internet Explorer 8 - accelerate your Hotmail. Download Internet
    > Explorer 8 <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/>
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to
    > SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    >
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    > options, you can do so online at:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
    >
    >
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > _
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  • 7.  is social sustainability scientific?

    Posted 08-31-2009 10:47
    I meant to post, but pressed  "reply" button,  the email went to William only. I post  again, so that other friends can share and comment.
    Regards to all,
     
    Sheng Zhao
     

    From: mhot77@hotmail.com
    To: billfred@katz.pitt.edu
    Subject: RE: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?
    Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:35:21 +0000

    Dear William,
    Thank you for your comments. I share the same suspiction about realization of satisfactory sustainablity. As an academic, I'm interested in finding out the true meaning of sustainablity, but the opinions are confusing and not very convincing, so that I wonder if it is a fad, not science.
    In my opinion, sustainablity is required by the environmental constraints on human race, but extending to society and economy is quite different, even we still use the same word "sustainablity". Social justice problems always exist regardless whether we have envrionmental crisis or not. Economcial crises, like the financial crisis last year, happens from time to time.  Sustainabillity in society and economy are  different in nature from that in envrionmental field, and even maintain social and economic inequality because it blocks radical changes.
    It is my personal opinion, open to correction and comments.
     
    Best regards,
     
    Sheng Zhao
     
     

     
    > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:38:39 -0400
    > From: BILLFRED@katz.pitt.edu
    > Subject: Re: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >
    > Dear Sheng Zhao,
    >
    > I appreciate your perceptiveness in noting that the phrase "social sustainability", and its use, are a function of cultural belief systems, not nature (or physical environment). And you are correct that one society's system of cultural beliefs, and policies based on those beliefs, may indeed burden another society (or several societies) with harmful practices. A frequently cited example of this kind of harmfulness is the economic and environmental divide displayed between the economically developed North and the lesser developed South, or specifically the many examples of environmentally disastrous resource exploitation in various underdeveloped nations by corporate interests based in technologically advanced nations where "sustainability" is often touted as company policy. You will discover, I fear, that "sustainability" advocates---whether speaking of economic, environmental, or social sustainability---have no clear way to cope with this dilemma, because they resist taking a position of cultural relativism and are generally reluctant to face up to the limitations placed on the very notion of "sustainability" by the physical laws of nature.
    >
    > Best wishes,
    >
    > Bill
    >
    > William C. Frederick
    > Professor Emeritus
    > Katz Graduate School of Business
    > University of Pittsburgh
    > US Postal address:
    > 1246 Murray Hill Avenue
    > Pittsburgh, PA 15217, USA
    > e-mail: billfred@katz.pitt.edu
    > Website: www.williamcfrederick.com
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Social Issues in Management Listserv [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of sh zh
    > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:05 AM
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: [SIM] is social sustainability scientific?
    >
    > Hello! Friends,
    >
    > I hope someone could explain about social sustainability.
    >
    >
    >
    > In my understanding, environmental sustainability makes sense because the natural environment is what all we need. But social environment is man-made, the culture and tradition you belong to might be a burden to me. So, social sustainability is equal to social desirability and may not be valid to others.
    >
    >
    >
    > I'd like to hear your opinions and explanations about it.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you,
    >
    >
    >
    > Sheng Zhao
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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